Analysis: with Kuminga, Dunleavy should just match offer sheet

[+exit interview video/transcripts]

Obviously, there’s been a ton of talk about potential sign-and-trade scenarios for Jonathan Kuminga lately. There are healthy debates about whether or not Steve Kerr can find a way to integrate him — more on this later on this website when we post Kerr’s exit interview transcript, as well as snippets from his recent appearance on Tim Kawakami’s podcast.

But should Mike Dunleavy, Jr. just try to keep Kuminga?

After all, at the exit interviews Dunleavy said, “As far as bringing him back next season, I think it's something that we're very interested in doing because when I look at the things JK does well, in terms of getting to the rim, finishing, getting fouled, these are things we greatly need and we know he can bring those to the table. It's not hypothetical — it's not a guy in the Draft that we think can do it.”

And yet that contradicts some of the reasons he wasn’t playing, as I’ve detailed before, here:

In JK’s defense, we have to remember that he only came to the US at age 13. As I’ve said on nearly every livestream when Jonathan gets mentioned in the comments, by definition he’s at least three years behind the typical American baller brought up through the AAU system, playing organized basketball with referees and tournaments and photogs and highlight reels, things like that.

That’s why, just last week, when there’s a long rebound and it’s a 50-50 chase to the ball in the corner, the smaller Donte DiVincenzo gets to the ball instead of him. JK just doesn’t have enough reps against quality individual opponents yet, which is atypical of an NBA player who just finished his fourth full season. He probably hasn’t had the training in programs like DiVincenzo’s Villanova under legends like Jay Wright. Kuminga sometimes shows that he “doesn’t know what he doesn’t know”.

But there are greater financial forces at work. At the initial posting of this article behind the paywall below, I give you the reasons why Dunleavy should just keep Kuminga and why that’s likely matching an offer sheet — and from whom that offer sheet comes. You can also simply watch this “salary cap workshop” video, which has topics and timestamps in the Description and Comments:

The paywall below disappears when I post the next article. As such, the previous article that contains the transcripts from Brandin Podziemski’s last interview of the season is also now unlocked.

The big reveal: Mike should just keep Jonathan.

This is because all of the sign-and-trade scenarios that I tried on the livestream either were super-complex or, quite simply yet logically, involved less-talented or physically smaller players. With one Wardell Stephen Curry literally saying on the podium at his exit interview (to be posted in due time) that “we need to probably get a little bit bigger across the board,” is it prudent to trade a 6’7” elite athlete for anybody that’s smaller than, you know, 6’7”?

First of all, the most glaring problem is that only 50% of the value of JK’s contract can go out in a sign-and-trade, yet his full salary must be accounted for on the cap sheet of the team he lands on.

This was first broadly tweeted out by Bobby Marks of ESPN, then reinforced/confirmed directly to me by salary cap expert Keith Smith of SpoTrac via email.

So wherever you send Kuminga, you’ll get only half of his impending contract value back and then, because of the CBA’s rules on sign-and-trades, the receiving team must have enough space under the first apron to absorb Jonathan’s full contract value for 2025-26.

By my rough count there are up to 19 teams not including the Warriors that are presently below the first apron with probably enough space to absorb JK’s new contract, minus the player(s) they send to GSW in that sign-and-trade for JK. But the livestream had already consumed two hours of my energy, so I didn’t probe much further than the handful of scenarios mentioned below and I’m not sure it’s worth trying to come up with more trades because the machinations of a Kuminga sign-and-trade are just so complicated.

My spreadsheet analysis concluded that to obtain Lauri Markkanen — whom my co-host Dean “of Positivity” Chambers and I still think is the best target out there, as mentioned eons ago here…

…plus bridges the franchise to beyond the eventual retirement of Curry — doing so would require a veritable gutting of the present roster outside of the Big Three. So that’s a bit cringe-y and undesirable.

Going down the list of targets, let’s then look at a more modest fit, perhaps a Poor Man’s Lauri, like 6’10” Jabari Smith, Jr., who has a $12.3 million contract. Smith, Jr. has actually been tagged by another salary cap expert, Yossi Gozlan of CapSheets.com and his guest Ben DuBose of RocketsWire, as expendable on the Houston roster. After all, Ime Udoka had Smith, Jr. pretty far down the depth chart in the series against the Warriors.

But Jabari-for-Jonathan probably wouldn’t work because it most likely would leave the Rockets over the first apron. Granted, they need to figure some things out first, such as what to do with Fred Van Vleet’s big number for 2025-26, not to mention a probable attempt to retain free agent Steven Adams. They might even be in pursuit of Kevin Durant or Giannis Antetokuonmpo, which one live-chatter on our channel said could still yield us Jabari in the fray with multiple teams involved, although I highly doubt that due to the recurring problems discussed throughout this article.

Bottom line: there are a lot of moving parts in Houston. Figuring out a Smith-Kuminga deal probably isn’t their biggest fish to fry, whereas it would be for Golden State. In other words, the timing of this would suck for the Dubs, once free agency starts on July 1. I’m not sure it’s wise to wait around for the Rockets to know what direction they’re going in, while JK is in the throes of his first free agency. The Warriors have to treat Kuminga as priority number one on July 1st.

During that “Warriors trades” livestream, I also did the math for other popular trade scenarios such as Cam Johnson, Austin Reaves and Coby White. Mind you, the person who brought up White didn’t want a straight-up trade of White-for-Kuminga, understandably, as White is only 6’5”. As such, he suggested JK for White and Kevin Huerter. Here’s the problem: that doesn’t work, salary matching-wise. It only works if you add Moses Moody.

I’m sure the inclusion of Moody already makes Warriors fans reading this moan and groan, but that’s my job here, to actually flesh out speculation and see what comes out in the wash, as Steve would say.

Speaking of White, Derrick White also does not work. As I mentioned, the team Kuminga lands on in a sign-and-trade has to be under the first apron. The Celtics are $34 million over that and shedding Derrick’s $28 million doesn’t fix that especially if JK is added. I guess you could claim that they could get off both Kristaps Porzingis and Jrue Holiday’s contracts in other transactions, but the Warriors would need to send out JK as well as Moody or Hield to salary match White with the 50% sign-and-trade rule.

And we haven’t even talked about the fact that D.White is the least desirable of him, Jrue and KP to shed the contract of, if you’re the Celtics. I find it very hard to believe that they would be stuck with both Holiday and Porzingis anfter failed trade atremors and therefore be forced to trade White. There’s not a single Boston beatwriter that would rank White lower than either of the other two on the list of guys they want to keep.

Practically speaking, BOS sending White to GSW, let alone anywhere, doesn’t make sense. Mathematically speaking, you can’t trade White via Kuminga sign-and-trade. I hope I’m not missing anything, but Derrick White is damn near impossible for the Warriors this off-season. Again, might as well keep JK now and explore trading him for D.White in Jan-Feb.

Overall, I analyzed six different JK sign-and-trade scenarios, each of which I might go through rigorous detail on this website coming up, as we have some time before the Draft, but all six ended up with some tricky combination of one or more of the following:

• Not surprisingly, the players involved in the trade didn’t feel like fair value for Kuminga, especially when you consider the players that might be available at next February’s trade deadline (more on this, below), or

• The receiving team ended up being over the first apron cap, violating CBA rules, assuming JK’s contract would be around $30 million for 2025-26, and/or

• The Warriors would be in the second apron the instant they signed Jonathan to that rough figure of $30 million, necessitating some kind of initial trade of probably Podziemski for a second-round pick (moans and groans) to duck beneath the second apron before JK is dealt, if the trade moved multiple players which was typically the case because — and we’re coming full circle, here — JK’s contract value was only counted at 50%, again, per CBA rules. 🥵

And then you take a look at all the players that are already making around $30 million and those names — Zion Williamson, Brandon Ingram, Desmond Bane, LaMelo Ball, Jrue, Derrick, Jerami Grant, Dejounte Murray, heck, even Jordan Poole or Andrew Wiggins 🤯 plus there’s a lot more guys around that level than this partial list — all look way better than, you know, Coby or Cam!

Now, the Warriors only have about $37 million of space under the second apron with four slots to fill beyond Kuminga, which brings us to the only team with enough cap space to offer JK an attractive, “non-disrespectful” salary: the Brooklyn Nets. According to a Google search, the Nets have about $98 million in cap space, actually. 😮

Now, as far as my above terminology of “non-disrespectful”, in a YouTube video that Bobby Marks did on the Warriors, he said JK’s market value should be around $18-20 million. I get that if you consider Kuminga’s DNPs and non-eye-popping performances against the T-Wolves, but that’s imo, well, “disrespectful”.

First of all, Lacob already offered Kuminga $30 million at the start of last season, so there had to be justification or market analysis done by Golden State for that, granted by now that data is a year old. Then again, you could also say it’s only a year old.

Secondly, $18 million is about half of what Orlando forward Franz Wagner was paid. Being that Wagner was selected at the next Draft position after Kuminga and they both play the 3-4 on the court, I don’t think $18-20M is a fair number. As a free agent, albeit restricted, have to compare JK’s value out on the open market, not what he’s worth in the vacuum of existing contracts on the GSW roster. Marks isn’t responsible for creating optionality for an NBA team’s salary cap, so I forgive him because his primary goal is to create consumable content for the masses on behalf of ESPN.

I could be wrong, but I think he left that optionality part out. Like, the Nets offering JK $18-20 million is not a good business move. If Kuminga doesn’t fit, which is hard for me to believe considering it’s a lot easier to fit a guy who is in the 92nd percentile of usage on a traditional team, than it is on a diametrically opposite ball-movement system like Steph and the Warriors, you’re not getting much in return if you need to trade out someone who doesn’t fit at pretty blah value of $18-20 million.

Then again, it does depend on the market. It depends on what some team other than the Warriors offers, like the Nets or maybe even Detroit, which has about $25 million in cap space — and those figures may never become publicly known.

At the same time, you don’t want to have a disgruntled player in your locker room. If someone is unhappy being here and feels disrespected for any reason, that could disrupt our winning culture. (*cough* Klay Thompson *cough*)

We’ve seen the Warriors throughout this era. I can’t think of one time when they had an “unfair” contract just signed, going into a new season. Guys who sign with the Warriors and start a new season, they are generally happy. It’s generally a fair contract. An $18-20 million figure for JK is not a happy figure when Wagner is at twice that. Maybe I’m missing something, but sorry, Bobby!

I think Joe will offer Jonathan the same $30 million as he did last September. It’s only fair in terms of all sides being happy. Again, this is in lieu of an offer sheet probably made by Brooklyn.

Anyways, back to the Nets. This is where they can, through their own cap sheet management, simply add at least one or two roster slots from a free agent list that includes JK, Josh Giddey, Naz Reid, and Myles Turner. Beyond that, you’d assume that Jonathan is higher on a list of “best player available” than Clint Capela or Nickeil Alexander-Walker — although that can certainly be argued, especially for people on the “JK-doesn’t-understand-the-game” side of the fence.

For example, Tony Jones, Utah beatwriter for The Athletic, loathes Kuminga and would probably have him well below Capela and NAW — I will discuss that whole pie-in-the-sky scenario for Markkanen and the Jazz in which JK’s contract would need to be utilized in the deal, in a separate post on this Substack. Maybe we’ll circle back to Jones and his anti-JK stances at that time. Maybe he’s reflecting what he’s heard from Utah brass?

And if Chicago, Minnesota and Indiana are hell-bent on re-signing Giddey, Reid and Turner, respectively, which is perfectly reasonable considering each of their circumstances, then Kuminga could emerge as No. 1 on the list for Brooklyn as “best player available”.

Why?

Well, not just by this process of elimination of who’s the best talent left over in free agency, but also as a rebuilding team, Brooklyn should have the motivation to create a viable roster slot with a future tradeable value. Or, who knows, maybe the Nets truly think JK can be a cornerstone of their franchise going forward?

This salary cap management is not really all that different than when approaching the NBA Draft, where the Nets should select the best player available. The nuts-and-bolts truth to that matter is, the goal is to create a roster slot that simultaneously maximizes assets into tradeable and playable value, i.e., value to yourself and in the marketplace.

It could be that Kuminga is the only player remaining on the market that can create a viable $30 million salary slot for the Nets.

Unless your team has an existing winning, championship-level culture whereby your Draft pick will need to conform to it, then you should pick the best player available which is typically the scenario for rebuilding teams such as Brooklyn.

So I also don’t get why the Nets would just trade Cam for JK straight-up when it doesn’t net (no pun intended) them any additional tradeable salary slot. If you’re Brooklyn, you want Cam and JK. You’re trying to increase the number of valued assets and salary slots, especially if you that much cap space when building said roster. And if you’re rebuilding like Brooklyn is, you seek draft picks, too.

I wonder if their general manager, Sean Marks, will use the Kuminga roster slot towards that end, maybe threaten an offer sheet that forces us into the second apron unless we agree to sign-and-trade JK plus a draft pick for Cam? Sounds like just keeping JK and keeping our draft picks would be the better route.

One more CBA rule to add even more intrigue: if Kuminga signs an offer sheet, he cannot be signed-and-traded to the team that made the offer, if the Warriors match that offer.

This all equates to the NBA executive’s buzzword of optionality.

That part! That’s why I was pissed at Kerr for the DNPs, which made JK’s slot less tradeable and less playable, but I digress and will come back to this later, below.

This is the same reason that Joe Lacob would want to keep JK. Lacob had him and his confidant/photog/workout partner Gibou Njie aka “EyeG” had sit next to, courtside at the Golden State Valkyries home opener two nights after the Dubs were eliminated:

Build up the asset to a point where it is a balance of tradeable and playable. Anyways, the CBA rules per my spreadsheet work forces Joe in that direction.

Incidentally here’s an Instagram post of Kuminga with a picture of him, his agent Aaron Turner of Verus Team and Ayodeji Egbeyemi, who is an investment adviser. JK labeled this IG story, “The big 3” and set it to the song “family ties” by Baby Keem and Kendrick Lamar:

Makes me wonder what kind of numbers they’re hearing out in the market place, now that we’re a good five-plus weeks away from free agency.

To summarize my spreadsheet analysis, turns out, no surprise, the 50% value sign-and-trade rule of the CBA is really prohibitive, as is staying under the punitive second apron, as is the receiving team staying under the first apron. I must conclude that Dunleavy should just:

1. Match any offer sheet (presumably by Brooklyn) and keep Jonathan or, if he’s not tendered one, then sign him to fair market value which is probably the original $30 million he was offered by Lacob last September, which then likely causes the Warriors to go into the second apron,

2. See how the season goes with JK fully integrated, as promised by Kerr at his own exit interview, then

3. Trade JK in January or February if the Warriors aren’t playing up to their potential or, if it looks like the team is making a Finals run, just keep him and remain a second apron team, a high playoff seed, assuming he’s integrated well.

By the way, if we’re in the second apron regardless of if JK is traded away or whatever player(s) he’s been traded for, guess who the next guy to be moved might be, considering the spectre of that second apron?

That’s right: Moody or Buddy Hield, who have the next biggest salary slots at $11 million and $9 million, respectively.

And so if the dominoes were set up like I detailed above, next summer we could be looking at keeping whomever performed better, Moody or Hield. One of them might have to go, to duck under the second apron if you’ve traded JK for a player near that $30 million salary range. In fact, this could happen by February along with the decision on JK at that juncture.

Obviously, the inability to aggregate salaries because they are a second apron team doesn’t hurt the Warriors as much at the February trade deadline if they’re gonna just trade JK straight up for one of those $30-ish million guys, which again is a nice list that seems to be more talented and bountiful than the present market at 50% of JK‘s salary.

Speaking of which, the Warriors had better keep some first-round Draft picks in case they need to sweeten this future JK trade by February.

The only way to get full value and fewer complications with a Kuminga trade is to wait until early 2026 to do that, so that’s the plan until then, imo. Once they sign him this off-season, CBA rules will require the Warriors wait three months to pass or until December 15th, whichever is later.

I’d even wait on Markkanen until February, even though I found a mathematical way to obtain him this summer whilst keeping our Big Three, despite Lauri’s seemingly astronomical $46.4 million figure. I’ll probably post an article describing the ins and outs of that one, even though I don’t think the Warriors should do it this off-season. I also don’t think Danny Ainge would accept it, but I’ll say why when that article posts.

Now, as I said on the aforementioned livestream, I’m not sure if I made some mistakes on my spreadsheets, even though I got the informal nod of approval from Keith. Maybe there’s a traded player exception that I’ve overlooked. If I did make a mistake or overlook something, that could change my conclusion(s) above. And do realize this whole piece is like a house of cards. Plus I spent many hours and edits on it, trying to organize the words properly. Still, maybe somehow I got all my variables correct.

And it’s probably better if you join me on the next deep dive livestream on our YouTube channel. The written word like this is just so absolute and non-malleable to change with the times.

But at least for now, I’ve gotten my hands dirty with the spreadsheets, which no other Warriors analyst or journalist or thumb-typing standup comedian or Screamin’ A. Smith wannabe — let alone aggregator, no doubt — has done.

Also I think it’s a super-valuable exercise to go through, even if I made a mistake along the way, because doing so only increases your knowledge of how player movement works and makes sense or not. You get a good sense of contract values and reinforcement of first and second apron thresholds.

And if Dunleavy chooses to trade JK for, say, Coby White and Kevin Huerter, then you know that deals for better players must have fallen through and you have a better appreciation for how difficult it is to get a deal done these days.

And yet going through the mental exercise, if deals are this difficult, you end up asking yourself, “Why the heck would you ever settle for Coby White and Kevin Huerter?”

Then you make the next incremental logical assumption and say something similar about Cam Johnson. No disrespect to Cam Johnson, though.

Like, why trade JK now for Cam when you can trade him later for, like, I dunno, (healthy) Zion?

And then all those jersey swap posts by emo kids on Xitter whining about trading for this name or that name, overusing the phrase “Who says no?”, they just roll off your mental because you know better.

You know what the spreadsheets told me and what I just conveyed to you. You don’t need to scratch that itch of misinformed outrage and thumb-type something that ultimately throws JK or Joe or Steve or Mike or anybody under the bus.

You become the 1% of 1% of fans. Congratulations! 🤝 Rise up! That’s called being high-vibrational.

Through the repetition of the spreadsheet work, you get to understand and appreciate the mentality of this franchise, so long as Dunleavy and Lacob stay in the VIP room with the other “whales” of the NBA. Keep improving assets from the Draft to that first extension. That’s how you succeed as a general manager.

You start to see the different wavelengths of the NBA, for example the “bigger fish to fry” analogy, where a Giddey is a prime target for a desperate franchise like the Bulls when an Alex Caruso is the picture frame, the final step, for a franchise like OKC.

Then again, like I’ve been saying, I could be wrong about this, we shall see.

One more thing. As you might know from my livestreams, I lay it on thick with the grassroots stuff. I draw heavily from my time running men’s rec leagues in every downtrodden part of Oakland and San Francisco back in the day, as well as the passion of the Asian-American ballers traveling all over this continent to play in under-the-radar tournaments.

I sense that the Kumingas are a different type of basketball family. Granted, Anthony Slater of The Athletic said on his podcast that JK would play it close to the vest on the exit interview podium, which he did, but Jonathan also added:

I have my mom, she a pastor. She pray for me pretty much every other day. I have good friends. I have good friends, I have great teammates, I have a good family that keeps supporting me through anything, no matter what. Just having those type of support around me just helped me get through a lot of crazy times, hard times, just the support that I had around me helped me go through everything.

And so I think JK himself has less of the typical average American AAU ego. First of all, there’s fewer or perhaps literally zero “boyz n the hood” (RIP John Singleton) in his ear. To Jonathan’s credit, that peer pressure is probably nonexistent for him, especially being a first-generation immigrant with English as a second language, which usually brings a higher level of humility and a natural buffer to outside noise when residing in a foreign land.

My speculative guess is that Kuminga is more accepting of his role than your typical AAU product, more accepting of Kerr and the vets’ tutelage and mentorship, less needy of spreading his wings and seeking the fame, fortune, notoriety and empowerment/entitlement of the garden variety AAU NBA player.

Maybe we’re lucky JK barely missed the NIL era. I’ve said before that Bob Myers blundered on not drafting Wagner, perhaps taking the Splash Brothers run for granted and not being able to see the importance of fit in the Curry ecosystem, although my co-host Dean remains steadfast that Franz was not impressive as a Michigan Wolverine.

So, maybe this whole thing with Jonathan was meant to be. Maybe Kerr innately knew everything would be alright when he gave JK the DNPs because he had the context of a caring mentor that we are not privy to.

Maybe Steve’s constant communication and nurturing of his players through the years has spared this restricted free agency from trending toward a trade demand. Maybe I was wrong about:

But… I was recently told by a trusted insider that JK will not be a Warrior next season. However, this was last week’s information, without the benefit of the number-crunching.

Whatever the case, looks like with his aforementioned IG story, Jonathan is ready to hit free agency. I wonder if I’m right about the Nets making a juicy offer and, subsequently, Lacob really having no choice but to match it.

Would the Nets threaten to put GSW well into the second apron and strongly suggest a sign-and-trade that includes a 1st Round draft pick or two to avoid a poison-pill-like contract, or would Sean Marks just pass on this whole thing, knowing Lacob would match no matter what? A chance to create a $30 million roster slot out of nothing — well, out of available cap space — seems too good to pass up, though.

I wonder how Steve’s promises at his exit interview to integrate JK from the get-go will manifest? I wonder if the reason he kept Kuminga in his separate section at practices in Hawaii was due to all the new faces including De’Anthony Melton — I want to do a film study before the Draft arrives, on whether or not Melton really was the key, early on. Maybe this September we’ll see a lot of JK with the Big Three co-mingling at training camp?

Well, I could be wrong about all this, but luckily Dubs Life moves on and we have a lot on our plate until then:

1. More Valkyries watch parties,

2. A pre-Draft livestream with expert Eric Guilleminault of NBADraft.net, who will be suggesting realistic targets with the 41st pick, sometimes with sourced info,

3. A sixth annual Draft Day livestream with a bevy of guests planned that DubNation will love,

4. A July 1 free agency livestream because last year that day was a blast on our Discord and we did not do a live chat for that, but we will now!

5. And the usual Summer League coverage right after that.

DUNLEAVY/KUMINGA EXIT Q&As:

00:00 Obviously, your future will become a hot topic as restricted free agency gets here. How do you just view, your future here and your future in the league?

00:13 JONATHAN KUMINGA EXIT INTERVIEW, DAY AFTER G5-GSW-MIN: I dunno. I don't know. I still gotta figure it out. I don't know, but — I don't know. I still gotta figure it out. We just finish playing, yeah, one day ago, so I don't really — I haven't think about anything yet.

00:37 How difficult was, really, your four years here, but particularly this season and kind of the yo-yo'ing in and out of the rotation, especially even in the playoffs?

00:48 It was some ups and downs and that's how life goes, but I had fun. I had a great time. I enjoy playing here. Yeah, there was some ups and down.

01:05 Do you think you proved something in these last few games just to the league, to your coach, to anybody?

01:13 I don't think about proving. I just (inaudible) go out there and win. I think that was just my biggest thing to go out there and try to win. Yeah.

01:25 Draymond mentioned that there was a defensive move you made coming off a guy against — covering, I guess, Ant. As he was cutting through that he said, he pointed out, that now you're playing defense. Do you remember that moment and do you feel like you've really accelerated the way you think the defensive game?

01:43 I think defensively I got better. So much better. I think he talked to me about in the middle of the game, but I still gotta see what action was it, but he talked to me in the middle of the game.

02:00 JK, that was your most playoff action that you've had since you've been here. How do you feel like that's gonna help you moving forward in developing your game?

02:11 I think I just gotta go back and watch. I know I still gotta learn, study those moments, just gotta go back there and just learn and just work towards, and see what else I could have done. And if I ever get those type of chances again, how I could be impactful, how I could help us win by any means.

02:38 How much would you say you've grown in your four years here?

02:41 I've grown a lot. I've grown a lot. When I look back from Day One when I got here compared to now, it's a lot of things that people don't see, but me personally, I feel like I've grown a lot as a player, as a person.

03:03 JK, would you need to hear from this team or your next team that you're in the rotation, there's gonna be no question about that? Was that something you want to know when you go decide your future?

03:22 I don't know what the future's going to be. It's something that any player would love to hear, going to a different year, so now I'm looking forward to that and I know it's gonna happen. Somebody gonna talk to me about how things will go next year, but I'm just looking forward to that. I don't know. I don't know anything about what the future's holding for me. but I'm just looking forward to it.

03:53 Did the unsettled nature of your contract situation, do you think that had any impact on the year?

03:59 What'd you say?

04:00 Just the fact that you were, obviously, extension-eligible last summer, nothing got done. Do you think that had any impact on this past season?

04:10 Not at all. Like I said, I ain't know what the future hold, so anything that happen probably happen for a reason. I'm just grateful to be here this time. I still got a long summer to go to figure things out.

04:31 How's your ankle feeling? And just how do you feel physically right now?

04:35 Nah, I feel good. I feel good. I feel healthy and good.

04:41 How are exit interviews today, talking to Steve, talking to Mike?

04:45 They were great. They were great. Like I told all them, it just — things just end, you know? It's gonna take us time to figure it out, what's really gonna happen, things like that. And I spoke to Steve about how he wanted me to know, just get better at rebounding more and I feel like I was doing better before I got hurt and I like where he was going with it. He explained to me little things. If I need a resource from him about things like that, I should hit him up and I don't have no problem doing that.

05:27 You mentioned with Steve, you think that relationship's in a fine spot right now?

05:34 Since I've been here, we had ups and down, but he helped me to get here and we had a lot of great moments. And I think our relationship been very good.

05:55 You have some options this off season. You can talk to other teams, et cetera. What is that like for you? Is it exciting? Is it nervous? How do you feel?

06:07 I don't know how those things goes and I think I'll learn more going through the summer with my agent, so I don't know. I don't know how that will go, but it don't really matter. I'm just gonna keep that — I'm gonna leave my agent into things like that and I would just listen to what he gonna tell me.

06:34 How was the season overall for you with playing your best basketball, then you suddenly have the longest injury of your career, then Jimmy Butler's added and you come back essentially to a brand new team? What did you think about the roller coasters this year?

06:49 It was tough. It was tough, playing great, and then things like that happened. I didn't let it down. I just went back and just rehab every other day, try to get better, and I came back to a complete different team and I had to figure out how to be impactful with that new team. Like I said, it was ups and downs, but I didn't put my head down and just said, I don't wanna get better or figure it out. I tried to figure it out, so it was — I had tough moments. Yeah.

07:32 Overall, was this a happy season for you? Was it a frustrating season?

07:36 No, it was actually a great season, especially, I had to learn more about myself when I got hurt. I had to change a lot of things. Yeah, it was a — I would say it was successful season. It was a great season. I'm not mad about it.

07:57 Jonathan, along those lines, how did you emotionally get through it all? You always seemed to be handling yourself pretty well with the injury. You still — I saw you still with a smile on your face and that's not always easy, either, to be away from the game you love. And how did you get through some of those hard moments?

08:20 Just leaving it all to God. I have my mom, she a pastor. She pray for me pretty much every other day. I have good friends. I have good friends, I have great teammates, I have a good family that keeps supporting me through anything, no matter what. Just having those type of support around me just helped me get through a lot of crazy times, hard times, just the support that I had around me helped me go through everything.

09:02 And a couple of your teammates who've been up here, they've said Jonathan's gone through so many different things in four years, challenges, ups, downs, like you mentioned, more than most people. And you still have a long career ahead of you. Have any of those experiences prepared you to get through whatever the next challenge might be?

09:28 They really have told me a lot. Like I say, they helped me grow more as a person, as a basketball player and I feel like without those moments, I wouldn't be where I'm at today. Sometimes I'm glad they happen. Sometimes, when I look back, I'm like, why did it happen to me? So I just try not to question myself a lot about those moments. I just leave it to God. I go out there and pray and I think those moments just helped me be who I am.

10:05 Jonathan, I know you said you're gonna let your agent deal with the contract and everything, but is there a part of you that's curious to see how the rest of the league values you?

10:18 My agent, I know, he would tell me here and there. I try to tell him to just try to figure it out, especially when we get close to whatever gotta be done. That's when it comes to me and ask me for my opinions, but throughout the season, I never thought about things like that. Even right now, I haven't even spoke to him, what we going to do or what we going to figure it out. I just tell him to take his time. I'm gonna take my time to figure it out, what I'm gonna do with my day 'cause, I'm bored. Once he heard something or once he figured out something, he's gonna come back to me.

11:05 Hello, I onathan. Obviously, you were absent a long time, but you said it's a great season for you, it's a successful season, but how you define this success, how you define this "great"?

11:19 I would say, just based of things I went through, like I say, the things that made it great is all the learning, all the moments I share with my teammates, just all the times I was here, and learning different things. I think that's what define a great season.

11:48 Just last season, your off-season had a lot of travel, Paris, Milan, et cetera. Do you have any destinations you're going to this summer?

11:58 I'm only trying to stay local as much as I can this year. I feel like I have a great — I wanna have a great season next year and I want to get better as much as I can. Trying to cut all the traveling and all the stuff like that to just stay locked in and work out and get better 'cause I feel like I could do something better next year. I could get better than what I did this year, so I'm just trying to lock in and just try and get better.

12:38 It's a gym rat summer?

12:39 Yeah.

12:41 Also, as far as your agent negotiating things and numbers, letting him handle that, but is your communication style also just texting Steve and Mike a little bit to say, "Hey, how you doing?" Do you want a little bit of that communication too?

12:56 For sure. I haven't — I'm not going nowhere. I'm still here. I would love to keep those type of relationship, you know? Work, kinda communicate with them throughout the summer and seeing where, what the thinking or how the vibe is, yeah.

00:00 MIKE DUNLEAVY, JR. EXIT INTERVIEW, 2 DAYS AFTER G5-GSW-MIN: We'll just start off briefly and then you guys can hammer away at questions, but I think it's a little, I guess, unsettling, disappointing to be sitting here today in May with a team that has Steve, Steph, Draymond and we're always looking to win championships so in some ways it's tough. We obviously fell short of that, but the way this team battled the second half of the season and winning the playoffs, winning the seventh game in Houston and going into Minnesota, winning Game 1 and then obviously the injury with Steph really put us behind the eight ball, so it's a weird thing to process sitting here. Obviously, we're disappointed, but I feel good about how things went this year. I just hate how it ended and so here we are, turn the page. Gotta figure out some stuff this summer. How do we make our team better? I think from my standpoint, going into the postseason, whether we lost in the first round or we went to the Finals, not much would change for my end in terms of we have to be better next year. I think we made a big jump adding Jimmy Butler this time last year. I was probably concerned about our ability to have a No. 2 guy. We went out this year, we got that and so now I feel better going into next season having a guy like Jimmy on our roster. We'll build around that with him, Steph Draymond, some of the other players we have, but I just overall feel like we're in much better shape right now than we were a year ago and we'll keep chipping away at this thing as long as Steph, Draymond, Steve, as well as our coach, as long as they still got their fastball, we're gonna keep pursuing titles and I think, if every year we can be in the mix, in the conversation like we were this year, you need a little bit of luck, you need a little bit of good fortune. We didn't necessarily get that right here in the last couple weeks, but if we're in the mix, these guys have a chance and I think that's the most you can ask for. Yeah, overall, a weird way to process the season, feel pretty good about it, but hate that we didn't find out more about how far this team could go, so that's where I'm at. If you guys have any questions, happy to answer those.

02:06 Mike, Steph specifically mentioned size, all around, the roster and shooting. I know you can't make a trade right now and you probably can't speak specifically, but would you highlight those two areas, shooting and size?

02:18 For sure. I think you can't go wrong with those areas. You can get bigger, more athletic, more skilled in terms of shooting, passing, defending. I just think we can improve in a lot of areas while at the same time, know we've got — we're sured up and good in some areas. We'll look to do those things, for sure you can do that. We'll look at trades. We'll look at free agency, but yeah, that's always — I know around here the buzzword "size". I'd love to have an ability to play bigger with Draymond and Jimmy in the front court and we can always go to our ace in the hole with Draymond at the center which we did basically from February 8th on and I think we were 27-8 with that lineup full, including the playoffs. It works. It's just, the question is, is that sustainable for 82 games? I'd prefer not to have to play Draymond at center for 82 games.

03:13 Kuminga is the big ticket item in the summer, obviously. Where do you think that situation's at, as it has started restricted?

03:20 Yeah, I mean, he's — last year we had the option to extend him this year. He's a restricted free agent. There's — if nothing happens, there's no new contracts, right? So we've gotta figure something out and that's what it's gonna be. We value JK. I think he had a resilient season, is probably the way I classify it. He had some ups and downs playing. Most importantly, he had this injury where he missed 31 games. He came back, it was a new team, there were some adjustments, but overall, commend him for his professionalism. I thought he was resilient and as far as bringing him back next season, I think it's something that we're very interested in doing because when I look at the things JK does well, in terms of getting to the rim, finishing, getting fouled, these are things we greatly need and we know he can bring those to the table. It's not hypothetical; it's not a guy in the Draft that we think can do it. He's shown for four years he can do that, so for that reason, we'll try to bring him back, but we gotta have those conversations. You gotta figure it out. It's a two-way street in terms of creating, getting a new contract and all that, so we'll see where it goes.

04:26 You mentioned it, you guys have a level of leverage because it is restricted free agency, but also his desire to come back will be part of the conversation. How much do you feel like there's a convincing that if he comes back, this is the best place for his career and how much will you also potentially look at sign-and-trades with him and other options?

04:47 Yeah, we will look at everything. I think it's hard to know two days after the season's over where it's all headed. I know where I see him as a player. I know how it can work with him here. I know how we can work with him better, but like in terms of guessing how it's all gonna play out or what the contract might look like or sign-and-trades and things like that, honestly, I'd be totally guessing at this point to conjecture on anything.

05:13 Did you get the sense in his exit interview he does want to meet?

05:17 Yeah, I don't — you know what? I don't really get into what was talked about in these exit interviews, whether it's with Steve, whether it's with me. I think those are pretty personal. I probably prefer not to comment on that, but yeah, look, JK's been here for four years. We've worked with him. He's put in a lot of time. There's — it's very reasonable and despite him not playing in some playoff games, I think it's very reasonable and actionable for him to come back.

05:45 How do you feel like the way he played against Minnesota might affect his market?

05:52 You know what? That's not a question for me in the sense of, I don't — that's probably for the other 29 teams to answer, so I know how we value him. I think it was good for him. It was good to see that after having some struggles and not being in the rotation during some games, for him to bounce back, step up and have some great games for us. That was awesome to see, but I don't know. I think from a GM's perspective, if you're evaluating everything on the whole, hard to say how much a few games matters.

06:23 And then just generally, not specific to any particular player, the playoffs were officiated pretty differently than the regular season this year. That's probably true always, but it felt different this year. How might that dichotomy affect the way you look at improving a team?

06:41 Yeah, I think we played a very physical team in Houston. They had a heck of a year. It was really tough to get past them and obviously their physicality came through way more so than this most recent series in Minnesota where they're really good in their own right, but it's just different, so I don't wanna really overreact to that. I do think there's a discrepancy in how the game's officiated in the regular season versus the postseason. I think we want this free flowing, offensive style of basketball for 82 games and then when the playoffs start, everybody's looking to be more physical to players. I think the fans are more okay with it. You just want really good competitive, tough basketball and so I think the league and the officials are a bit of a tough spot where they gotta all of a sudden adjust or figure out which way we're gonna do it, but both are entertaining. I think everybody just wants consistency.

07:30 When you're looking for a center maybe to give Draymond a break from playing the 5, what are some of the traits that you're gonna look at when deciding who to bring in?

07:39 Yeah, I think the biggest things are, you gotta look on both sides of the ball. How do those — how does a player of that position compliment the guys we have? And that specifically in the front court, Jimmy and Draymond, I think with those two guys seeing a nice little sample size of how they played together, one way or another on the offensive end that player's gotta be able to finish, whether it's at the rim or shooting a three. We need — with the way Draymond and Jimmy can create and generally play near the rim, having somebody that they can finish near the rim or make a shot's gonna be important in that situation. Then defensively, what do they bring to the table? Whether it's rim protection, whether it's switch-ability, those types of things, draymond's great as a center defensively, but he's also great when he's at the 4 and he can roam and he can be behind the center if the center's brought up the floor and pick-and-rolls and things like that. Those are the things we'll look at.

08:36 Mike, when it comes to improving this roster, what's your general philosophy on whether if a star becomes available, knowing you have already Jimmy, Draymond and Steph, adding a fourth star or improving with multiple complementary pieces? There was a lot of talk before the trade down, before you got Jimmy, "We didn't want to mortgage our future and make a desperate trade or anything like that." Has Jimmy changed the equation of that at all?

08:58 Yeah, I think the biggest thing, whoever we're trying to acquire or draft or sign or anything is, how much does that player make us better? And then from there, what all are we giving up? And we're good giving up whatever it takes. It just depends how good we think that will make our team and I think the only issue with mortgaging the future is you just don't wanna get caught — I don't wanna get caught in a situation where we give up a ton, put all our chips in and then 10 games in the season, we have a catastrophic injury, there's nowhere to go and then we're stuck for four or five years, so we gotta balance that. There are maybe gonna be some risks where it would be worthwhile to do that, but that's what you gotta look at is upside, downside when you make these moves.

09:43 Mike, are the ages of Steph, Draymond and Jimmy sustainable for a championship run and do they maybe need to be surrounded by a guy around players from more of those "bridge" ages, around like 30 or so?

09:55 Yeah, I think we're at the point now where you gotta have an eye of the future down the road, but this league's year-to-year and especially with the guys that we have, our focus is mostly 90% on next season. How do we make this group better? And that can come in a myriad of ways, but yeah, we I would love to get guys that are in their pre-prime or prime where they're gonna have more years when Steph and Draymond and Jimmy are gone, but at the same time, if we have to get a bunch of 33-year-olds or 35-year-olds that we think can really help us win a championship, that is the goal and we will do that, cost permitting.

10:33 Mike, how do you reconcile the struggles that both Brandin and Moses had in the playoffs versus the strides that they made in the regular season as you plot everything out for next year?

10:44 I thought it was great for them to get the experience. Moses has been in the postseason before. He had some really good games, helped us win a championship in '22. Brandin, first time and for these young guys to get those experiences, to go through a different playoff series, Houston was different from Minnesota. Not only how they defended us, but also all of a sudden Steph's out and everybody's role shifts and you gotta do more. And I think those types of things really help those guys. It's unusual for a young player to come into the playoffs and just run through seamlessly and for a guy like Brandin, I thought he had some really good moments. He did some terrific stuff. Yeah, there were some games where he struggled and shots weren't going in and things like that, sure, but I love the experience that both those guys had. Overall, I think they learned some things and then next time around they'll be better.

11:32 You were in the tax a little bit this season, not all, not deep into the tax. I know these meetings happen over the next few days or weeks, but would you imagine you have the okay to go deeper in the tax, maybe even go into the first apron, maybe even if there's something great to go beyond that?

11:48 Yeah, I think we've seen with Joe in this ownership group, there's an unbelievable willingness to win at all costs. We'll weigh that stuff a little bit now, becomes dependent on the competitiveness, playing within the rules. It does, the more you spend, make it harder to make deals and stuff on the basketball operations side, but I wouldn't put a limit on going into the tax apron, second apron, all that stuff. It's tremendously advantageous to avoid the second apron, from a team-building standpoint, but I would never say never. If there's something we do that we feel like puts us head and shoulders above people, I imagine Joe Lacob would okay it.

12:27 And obviously Steph, Draymond and Jimmy are all synced up in their contract. Steve's got only one year. He said he's fine going year-to-year, but would there be an interest from management to get Kerr's contract synced up with those?

12:40 Yeah, for sure. He's as big a part of this as anyone and he's been great being here. I love him as a partner in this profession and, yeah, I think it's one of those things where we want him here as long as he wants to be here and if it means going year-to-year or doing an extension, I think we can figure stuff out and of the things on my radar and agenda, it's no offense to Steve Kerr, but it's not the highest thing up there, just 'cause I know Steve will be around for a while.

13:13 I was gonna ask about the second apron tax purposes. You mentioned it within your answer, but how, now that we're further away from the implementation of those rules, what part of the second apron is, do you feel like, is fearful for teams and how do you view it as something you want to avoid, not for money purposes, but for strategic purposes?

13:33 Yeah, I think the biggest thing, there's a few, but makes it hard to make trades. There's such limitations on that, so if you do realize during the season you gotta get better in an area or a guy goes down like this year, for instance, with De'Anthony Melton with us and turning around and getting Dennis Schroder, when you're in the second apron, it creates some issues. So avoiding that is generally good. It's not something you have to do at all costs. You can obviously work around it, but you better feel pretty good about your roster.

14:04 Mike, you talked — over here — you talked earlier about a center and the things you need to see, finishing or shooting threes. You obviously have two young centers, one of whom is more at the rim in Trayce and Quinten, who emerged as a three-point option. How do you view their development and how practical is it that they can relieve Draymond of some of those duties next season.

14:27 Yeah, we like those guys. I think we think they fit pretty well with how we want to play and the roster we have. I thought Trayce had an interesting season 'cause he started off, he was our starting center. He did some really good stuff, was out of the rotation after the trade and then bounced back and did some pretty good things in the playoffs. He's a good, solid young player, fits in a lot of ways. And then Quinten, obviously, incredible rookie year for a guy drafted in the second round. We intended for him to be in the G League most of the year and he came right up and chipped in in a major way. His floor stretching ability, his size, those things are important, so I feel like we know those guys can compliment who we have and we'll look at other things to make the position better, but we're happy with having those two young players.

15:10 I guess to follow on that, both guys second-round picks, you guys have No. 41 this year. How much merit is there in having that pick and just how much confidence is there that you can find potentially another contributor like Trayce, like Quinten, at 41?

15:20 Yeah, that's what we'll look for. I think it's, frankly, been nice to have some of these young players come in and contribute right away. It's not always guaranteed, but 41, there'll be a — I'm sure there'll be a good player there and we'll see if we can always trade the pick. We can keep it. It'll just, I think the biggest thing of interest will be the amount of players that stay in the Draft versus go back to school. That'll probably dictate the quality and the talent level at the pick, but 41's — it's a pretty good range to be in.

15:50 Hello, (general) manager. At that time about Jimmy Butler, the trade, they have some noise that surround, given the past with you, with Jimmy, you think, what do you see in Jimmy that the rest of us didn't see it?

16:08 I think it's been about what I expected with Jimmy, having played with him prior and followed him throughout his career. When we made the trade, I felt really good about it, both what he was gonna bring us on the floor and off. I'd say it's about what I expected. Can't speak for his experiences with some of these other teams, but he's a competitor, he's a winner, a really good basketball player and we're fortunate to have him.

16:34 Mike, what is — Steve always uses this phrase saying that today's NBA is so different than it was few years ago. Obviously, we can see that with the three-point shooting and stuff, but in terms of your philosophy as of building a roster, what do you think of the three or four things you want to do to try and get a roster? What does it take to build a roster that can succeed in the NBA today?

16:55 Yeah, you hit on it with the three-point shooting. I think it goes both ways, both offensively and defensively. You want to have guys that can stretch the floor, make shots, and create more space for your other players and even defensively. How do we defend the three-point line? I thought that got us into some trouble this year. It just allows so much variance in the game where if you're up 15, 20 points, a few possessions, team's right back in if they bang down threes and so I think us being mindful of how do we defend the three-point line better is something we'll talk about a lot this summer. We'll look at it as in terms of player acquisition and free agency, in the Draft. Guys, whether it's being able to guard the ball better, protect the rim, those kind of different things, it can potentially help you guard threes better, is something we'll be thinking about. Yeah, I think that's probably the biggest thing to your point, but yeah, there's some other areas, the way the game's changed and will continue to evolve it. We gotta — you sorta gotta be ahead of, right? As you see it go when you're team-building, to know what's coming next and that comes from evaluating the season, but also watching the playoffs. We're done. Hate turning games on. It's puts a sour taste in your mouth, but you can learn a lot from it.

18:03 With Jimmy and Dray as part of your core, you guys really aren't built to be a five-out team or even a four-out team. What are the challenges of trying to threaten defenses with those two guys not being that threat from three?

18:16 Yeah, I mean, I think it's playing to your strengths, right? There's multiple ways to skin a cat and I think a lot of people complain about the homogenous-ness of the NBA, so to speak, where everybody's spacing it out and playing high pick-and-roll and shooting a bunch of threes and all that. I kinda like that we can do things differently. Obviously with Steph, he's such a unique player and creates so much gravity, but Jimmy and Draymond are unique in their own rights. Jimmy's ability to get to the line, it's a highly efficient way to score and get to the basket and those things, we've got ways to be a really good offense. It's just maybe not as traditional in 2025 as some of these other clubs.

18:52 Mike, you had mentioned, "As long as our three stars have their fastball, we're still about pursuing championships." Do you see this as a two-year window and seeing what you see with the landscape of the NBA and other contenders, do you feel like at their age, they can keep that fastball going for these next two years and what you might have to do around them?

19:12 Yeah, I don't want to cut it short, but I want to think a little bit more short term and see it as a one-year opportunity and then we'll see what happens after next season and how we pivot and do things differently, but for now, we're gonna focus on next year. Steph's an All-NBA player, Draymond's one of the most elite defensive players, not only ever, but still today, and then we have a very special player in Jimmy, so it's like, how can we not focus on winning it all? That's gotta be our focus and I think as far as how it relates to the rest of the league, the West is tough. It's a really tough conference. We can't just say, "Hey, let's get through the regular season and let's hope for some favorable matchups and health in the playoffs," and give it a go. We've gotta build a team that can get through the regular season. We won 48 games this year and we're in the Play-in, so it's very tricky to navigate a whole season with some older players and still win games and be in position. You wanna win the playoffs, so that'll be the hardest part. It's not just show up in April, May, and June and hope for the best. It's a long haul and we gotta be mindful of that and we've gotta build a team around that, but I do believe in the way these guys take care of their body. Draymond, Steph, Jimmy, they all had tremendous health this year and that's a credit to our medical staff. Unfortunately, the story is Steph missed our last four games 'cause of a hamstring injury, but the reality is we manage them quite well and just got a little bit of a stroke of bad luck at the end, but I think on the whole, these guys ages are what they are. But 37, 38, 35, that's different than it was 10 years ago, so I think these guys still got it in them and we'll manage them well and, hopefully, put ourselves in a position to compete for a title next year.

20:50 How do you view your own future and how are you settling into the job? Do you feel like a veteran GM at this point?

20:59 I think I'm learning every day, every season. It's nice to have two years under my belt with this team. Learned a lot. We've been through a lot. I thinking back on last year, the things we went through, didn't make the playoffs, lost in the Play-in, Draymond Green was suspended for a lot of the season, went through that. And then this year, this year felt like three different seasons. We started off 12-3, we lost our way, went through the trade deadline, made a move and rekindled some stuff and it was a really exciting spring. So I just feel like we've been through a lot, but that's life in the NBA. I've been around this a long time. The seasons are long, but they go by fast and I feel more and more comfortable as we go along, but that's not to say I've got a lot to learn. We'll figure more things out, but I'm happy with the way, as an organization and group, front office, we've problem-solved and figured things out because we've been through some tough times on the court, off the court, but I like our ability to figure things out and problem solve as we've gone along.

22:05 Without subtracting anyone necessarily from the current roster, would you say that it would be safe to say you guys would require a big, a wing and maybe a playmaking guard to be from where you are now to championship contender? And how much do you prioritize needing size versus needing shooting versus needing playmaking?

22:29 Yeah, it's tricky to filter through all that and prioritize it while acknowledging all those things are good and will help. I think the beauty of our team is, at least the guys that we have here, there's tremendous versatility with them, so we can add some stuff and we could sign a guy and, yeah, all of a sudden then Jimmy could play 2, 3, or 4, or Draymond could play 4 or 5, and Brandin Podziemski can play multiple positions and you go through the guise. Yeah, all those things you mentioned would be nice and we'll look at those things, but we do have some versatility where we're not locked in. We have to have this certain position where we have to have that. The one thing I would say we have to have is health. We learned that this year, big takeaway when you get in the playoffs, you need your best player to advance. And we — that didn't happen and you see the results. It's unfortunate there's not much you can do about it except for hope, but that's where I'm at with things, but I think there's a lot of ways to improve this roster and I wouldn't necessarily pigeonhole us into having to have a specific position or a specific skillset. We probably need a range of them all.

23:39 Alright, one last one.

23:41 Just, in that same realm, Looney and Gary are free agents again, just how do you view their future here?

23:46 Yeah, those guys have been key parts of our organization for a long time, been a part of championship teams. They're free agents. I know I told them yesterday we'd love to have them back and we gotta figure that out, just like with JK. When guys' contracts are up, it's a business. You gotta work through it, figure out what works, but in terms of how we value them, they bring us great things on and off the court and would love to have those guys back.

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