Draymond suspension’s roster implications per Bobby Marks
Boy, did the commenting on our YouTube channel take a turn on Wednesday. Out of a basic newser post on Draymond Green’s suspension came the outrage zombie apocalypse emo tweets of “oh btw Klay Thompson is trash.” So I had to infuse some rationality back to the channel I built from scratch back circa 2012 (first locker room video ever was of Kent Bazemore) and remind people that I did not set out to create a clone of Xitter. You can see the post on our COMMUNITY section: https://youtube.com/letsgowarriors/community.
As stated on the POR-GSW livestream, I originally had the Jan 4th game vs DEN as the litmus test. So if Draymond is indeed gone until the New Year, which some NBA insiders are speculating (see below), then it could make sense for reform right now anyways, but then you’re assuming the current ecosystem won’t work.
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So idk, I mean, you do have Chris Paul, one of the greatest pick-and-roll point guards ever. Do you abandon 0.5-Basketball right away and push the chips in on P&R? (I’m gonna call it “P&R” instead of “PNR” from now on because I’m a nitpicky journalist.) Wow, it’ll be interesting to see vs LAC. Maybe Steve Kerr can utilize both. Incidentally, I still think Klay has value as a gravity guy, as evidenced by Stephen Curry’s game-deciding dagger late vs Portland and described here:
…and I listed my desired starting five and closing unit as CP3, Steph, Klay, Jonathan Kuminga and Dario Saric, mainly because Kuminga is the obvious pick in Draymond’s absence but also that CP3 has that “dawg” in him to match up versus the veteran Clippers and by extension, Saric is a good pairing with CP, which all of us should realize by now. And so my pick of Klay over Moses Moody probably got some already outraged people even more outraged, with then spurred the “Klay is trash” outbursts.
Back to Draymond, check out what Kevin Durant had to say about Draymond last night after the Suns lost to Brooklyn at home (also included is the Jusuf Nurkic and Devin Booker postgame from GSW-PHX):
Which brings me to Bobby Marks of ESPN’s video, detailing the roster considerations of the Warriors in the near- and long-term. Below the embedded video is a transcript (due to time constraints, I skipped detailed editing of it and I think it is passable and certainly an improvement over the default transcript you’d get from YouTube), which has my thoughts sprinkled in in italics, and then after that you’ll see some more notes and quotes as the suspension was announced.
So, like the rest of this website, this is just to transmit as much information about the suspension and its impact on the roster going forward, which is obviously hugely important now that Draymond, being unable to play, of course, can’t simply “play better” as the default and easiest solution would normally be.
Again, my bent is more towards the engineer’s technical manual. I’m not gonna be able to write you words eloquently like Tim Kawakami of The Athletic just did, basically saying — in a way that is objective and does not throw anybody under the bus — that the Warriors could very well move on from Green because he doesn’t think Green can change.
I should add that my thesis awhile back after the Rudy Gobert incident was that Draymond’s DNA was built with “Saginaw Strong” enforcer genes…
…and with a child’s brain essentially recording everything it senses from ages 2 to 12 (this is scientific fact, you can look it up), it is very, very, very difficult to change your personality unless you actively agree to “cross that river” — and often times it requires meditation (or hypnosis) whereby you get your brain out of beta state and get into the subconscious where a lot of your brain has already formed habits and protective/survival instincts, and so on and so forth; I won’t get into that here, but you can look that up.
Btw, have I suggested this to Draymond’s camp in the past? I actually did. After “The Punch” of Jordan Poole happened. But I was met with resistance. I might give it another try, if it turns out that Draymond is indeed suspended until the New Year. After all, it’s the holidays and there’s more time for this to marinate in my mind and figure out a tactful way of re-presenting it, especially with an open heart and honest, constructive, non-judgmental intention.
Anyways, beyond the Marks transcript and bullet points below are some relevant excerpts from my erudite discussions with our YouTube audience the last 24 hours, largely surrounding the Klay vs Moody debate which I probably should’ve just made a different post on here (oh well), and finally the postgame interviews and game notes from Phoenix. Here’s a fun divergence of practice at Grand Canyon University, which has thus far been greatly overshadowed by doom and gloom, obviously:
Finally, for midday Thursday, I plan to release a paid subscribers-only article about all the insider-y stuff I’m hearing about Brandin Podziemski. With information relevant as soon as the Clippers game tonight, definitely worth the five bucks per month, if you’ll allow me to toot my own horn…
MARKS TRANSCRIPT + commentary
Bobby Marks: “I saw Perks (Kendrick Perkins) say 25 games. I saw J-Will (Jason Williams) say 20 to 25 games. it was hard to read. I thought it would be five games based on circumstances, which was a little bit different, I thought, than the Gobert situation, which was, I thought, was reckless. I might have kind of given more for that compared to, I guess, what Draymond says.”
This is tangential, and I hate to say this because it detracts from the thesis, but Marks referencing Perks and J-Will is reinforcement to me that a lot of people, even a guy who was a former assistant GM in the NBA, cannot distinguish between information and entertainment. Now, Perks and J-Will could very well be correct in their predictions, but can we stop quoting entertainers as reliable sources of information? Now, the irony is that Marks himself actually *is* reliable and informative and definitely *not* an entertainer. Perks is an entertainer, period. And J-Will, I barely ever watch, so I don’t really know, but I tend to think his ambition is to be more of an entertainer than a journalist.
Marks: “It was a basketball player and he was swinging his arm, but he knocked Nurkic out. I thought it was a little bit different. I saw Windy (Brian Windhorst), who's terrific, go on and basically give the Draymond multiplier based on, hey, if this was a guy who got a flagrant two and he got two games. Do you multiply it by three, give you six games for Draymond?”
My problem with Adam Silver and Joe Dumars is that they, like with the training, development and evaluation of referees, don’t have any guidelines, therefore it reflects their bias towards certain personalities. Now, Kyrie Irving (for anti-Semitism) and Ja Morant (for gun-toting, the first time) got eight games apiece after being suspended with the word “indefinitely” in the initial statement. Should Draymond get as much or more than guys who did appalling, immoral things off-the-court that were borderline criminal? I definitely don’t think so, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Silver/Dumars go there. The irony is that Dumars was the GM of the 2004 Detroit Pistons and Draymond was best friends with his son Jordan Dumars — and it’s also kinda funny his son was named after Michael Jordan — and they spent a lot of time as 14-year-olds in the 2004 Detroit Pistons locker room, the same one that had Rasheed Wallace, who just last week said on Gilbert Arenas’ podcast, “That’s our fault… ‘cause he grew up in our locker room. One of his bestfriends was the son of the GM, so he was around us… that’s why he doing the bully sh*t he doing now.” Draymond even responded on Instagram, “My folks.”:
Incidentally, Chauncey Billups also said pregame at POR-GSW that the 2004 champion Pistons shaped Draymond and that they are proud of what he has accomplished, citing how Green’s antics were normal back then but “abnormal” now, and even throwing in an anecdote where they couldn’t believe the “chubby kid” was going to go play at Michigan State. Janie McCauley of AP had the pregame video here.
Marks: “I don't think there was any right or wrong answer. I think certainly we all have opinions, and we live in America, the greatest country. We can give opinions as far as what, was going to happen with Draymond. Comes out, of course, I'm doing the webinar, Woj (ESPN NBA lead reporter Adrian Wojnarowski) tweets, indefinitely, and then like the wheels start in motion here.
Malika (Andrews)'s calling me. I'm like, I can't talk. I'm trying to teach a class. but, so what does indefinitely mean here? We certainly saw Ja Morant indefinitely turned into eight games. I think when you're certainly, you know, and as Woj has said, Rich Paul, Joe Dumars, I was going to say Bob Myers, Mike Dunleavy Jr.,
all going to meet and figure out, like, how does Draymond Green control his emotions, how does Draymond Green go by the rules of the law as far as from an NBA standpoint. He didn't help himself after the press, after the game last night with his press conference. Windy said he probably should have added two more games to it.
I kind of agree to him. there have been a litany of things, will, will Draymond Green ever show remorse? I don't know. Is this the tipping point? I don't know. what does indefinitely mean? Is it nine games? It takes you to January 1st. Is it 20 games? I think only Draymond Green and the NBA have an idea as far as what that's going to be.”
First of all, the swing and connection to Nurkic’s face definitely looked bad on tape, but I agree with Kawakami: I don’t think Dray intended to injure Nurkic. It’s hard for a human being to show remorse if there honestly wasn’t intent, just ask anybody who accidentally rams into your rear bumper. So I sure hope Silver/Dumars don’t add the two games Windhorst is suggesting for Dray’s postgame interview which one could therefore say, backfired on him and Raymond Ridder, who definitely had to have thought Dray going on the podium was a good thing — players who are ejected rarely ever take the podium and are usually not urged to, as would, say, a player that led the team in scoring or was otherwise impactful to the game from a stats/positive standpoint.
Now, nine games — one more than Kyrie and Ja each, which again, makes no sense to me from a moral standpoint — “taking the Warriors to Jan 1st” is an important benchmark, because as you’ll see in the discussion with our audience from YouTube, I’ve pegged Jan 4th vs the Denver Nuggets as a key litmus test.
Marks: “Does he have to hit a certain criteria of benchmarks like Kyrie Irving when he got suspended? Was that indefinitely? well, a year ago in, in, in Brooklyn, that, that's going to be interesting as far as what comes out of that meeting and what the NBA says as far as these are the rules that you have to live by here.
And this is going to be what happens here. I thought the flagrant two was beyond reckless, It's certainly based on, you know, we just went through this a month ago here. and Golden State has a lot of issues here. couple things real quick, and I'm going to go into the Warriors situation here.
So, how the rules work as far as players suspended. it's based on a formula. So for green, if it's fewer than 20 games, it's 1/145th of that player's salary. $153,941 per game, Draymond Green, is, is, is fined. If it comes out that it's 25 games, so more than 20 games, it's 1/110, which comes out to $202,922. I've tweeted about the numbers here, I've tweeted about as far as the tax variance.
There's a slide that we did through Sports Business Classroom basically 50 percent of per game what he gets, docked gets applied as a credit towards a luxury tax. So at a minimum Golden State is saving $519,555 per game. It's a quirky rule. it's basically like we're losing one of our better players, but we're actually going to save half a million.
It's one of those rules that's in the CBA, from a tax variance, standpoint. he is going to get, he is going to lose millions of dollars for this and I don't know if Draymond Green cares. I mean, he signed a four year, a hundred million dollar contract. The next thing is that you're basically, I would say, and I'm just, it's just me talking that if there's another incident that we don't see Draymond Green for the rest of the year.
If there's an incident, he comes back and there's a fight in a game, there's an altercation. The likelihood is that you will see it 25, maybe 50 games and it will go downhill. Now here's the thing, and I sent this to our group at NBA Today. this is different than the, than the Major League Baseball.
It's different than the NFL. That, as far as from an arbitration standpoint, Green can file a grievance and, and everything. But it's not like all of a sudden MLB is going to say, you know what? It's 12 games, it's going to be 8 games. If it's fewer than 12 games, and we don't know because it's indefinitely, the commissioner is the arbitrator.”
This is another thing I don’t like about Silver, that the NBA is a dictatorship with not so much as any guidelines to suspensions as well as referee discipline. Then again, he’s got the Midas Touch when it comes to the billions brought in, schmoozing with network executives and we are all beneficiaries of that.
However, as a former men’s rec league commissioner aka “The Poor Man’s Commish”, I would like to say that I don’t feel like Adam truly loves the game the way that a lot of us Japanese, Chinese and Filipino hoop diehards in the Bay Area do. Add Koreans and Latinos in LA to that, too. We just want things to be fair for all teams that enter our leagues and tournaments. Please, no rigged trophies.
The dictatorship style with the on-court “Draymond Rules” and the lack of transparency with the refs is troublesome. The very biased strength of schedule, which I haven’t yet written about but is obviously heavily influenced by the In-Season Tournament, with multiple games against the same teams within mere weeks or sometimes even just days — opponents that, on paper before the season even started, are all worthy opponents — remains top secret.
The interpretation of rules varies from ref to ref. Example: are we finally seeing the take foul implemented to its full intent and, if so, why did it take so long? How does Curry not get to the line more often compared to how frequent he attacks the paint? I’m not saying there’s bias, I’d just like to know the possible science behind that. Is it literally harder for a human being to see another 6’3” human being get fouled? Say SOMETHING about that?
How they pick the officials for each game remains a mystery. Why the refs don’t seem to mirror the makeup of the players in the league seems odd to me. Why there seems to be a gap in the experience of certain referees has never been explained. Scott Foster apparently has suspicious ties to Tim Donaghy. The replay review process is broken and is way more of a crapshoot than the NFL’s system. How can that be?
Off-the-court stuff Adam’s handled, I have no qualms. It’s all the stuff that happens within 94 feet. I’m not sure it’s fair for all parties involved, most notably 6’3” 200-lb guys as compared to 6’8” 235-lb guys. And I do think that the inability of referees to develop rapport with players has accumulated in frustration, in particular for reactionary dudes like Draymond. That could be a reason why he snapped, although he definitely crossed the line with the swing, intentional or not, that hit Nurkic in the face.
And I should say that the Warriors should have hired a team psychologist a long time ago, and if they did, the fact that they did not make this known to the public in the wake of the JP Punch, would also be a gigantic missed opportunity to improve themselves. Heck, the struggles of Wiggs and Klay are largely mental, based on the mistakes they are making on game film (see “drops ball out of bounds” or “forgets to guard guy in corner” in my game notes). So either the team has not addressed the mental aspects of the NBA grind, or they are not doing it good enough — and now by the wording of the NBA’s Draymond suspension statement, they’re going to hold Lacob accountable. I will grant him the excuse that this stuff is cutting edge in that I highly doubt any other NBA team has addressed it on a team-wide basis, either, but he’s also quipped “Light Years.”
And that leads me to my final gripe, even though I do have overarching gratitude that I get to share my passion with you all and have food on my table in that process, as well as the fact that I got the privilege to observe and report on Hall-of-Fame players on a daily basis at every practice, shootaround, and game, on the road as well as at home, for a span of maybe 7-8 years: Can we be more humble from now on?
All this bragging about “four rings” in many different ways by the core, Steve’s quip during the 6-2 start that “now we have vets who can close a game”, Klay snapping back with “what, you wanna bench me?”, the list goes on and on. It’s finally catching up. All the ballers I knew from my 10,000 hours of playing on various teams, running leagues, coaching All-Star ensembles representing my admittedly brashly named “Dream League”, we all knew that the more we bragged about our wins, the more the basketball gods would even the score with some humble pie. Can we start by decommissioning the phrase “Light Years”? All it takes is one podium visit by Joe.
Can we stop with the over-confident turnovers and dial it back, just be a little more conservative in our play than shooting threes in people’s faces? Every team is still probably going to make more than 4 threes out of their first 10 attempts on us, just because we wear blue and gold — I might go back to keeping track of those on every game livestream. We don’t need anymore targets on our backs. The throwing of the ball to the other team for a runout dunk being okay, because Andre Iguodala is gonna come back and drive to the hoop and swing it back out for a dagger three by Curry, isn’t happening anymore. Just dial it back, Steph! It’s doable, you did so in Game 7 at SAC. You do it first, the rest will follow. Normally I’d include Dray on this, but he won’t be with us for awhile. Anyhoo, if he sees 30 dialing it back, he’ll dial it back when he comes back too, eventually. END OF FIVE-TANGENT RANT!
Marks: “If it's more than 12 games, then there's a player arbitrator system that goes through this here. And if anything that, I don't see Green filing a grievance unless all of a sudden the league says, you know what, we don't like how you're reacting, we're going to suspend you for the rest of the season.
That's a different ball, animal there as far as what can happen as far as from that perspective here. So, he can file a grievance. He can try to get some money back, but this is going to cost at least a million dollars that's going to come out of Draymond Green's pocket. it, I mean, it's unbelievable that Golden State could probably save about five million dollars here.”
The fact that the millions saved is on the order of magnitude of a whole year’s veteran’s minimum salary makes me think that Lacob will indeed use the extra roster slot should Dray be suspended for six or more games. Rudy Gay again, anyone?
Marks: “How does it impact from a roster standpoint? Well, Golden State had 14 players. Green is now suspended. I had the rule here. Let me pull this up. Suspended list. If a player is suspended by the NBA, he must be on the team's active list during the full term of the suspension, except if the suspension is for six or more games, the player may be transferred to the suspended list after the fifth game.
So after the fifth game, Draymond goes to the suspended list, if that's how many games. Golden State would be able to sign a player, but remember, they already have a roster spot, so they can go out and sign a 15th player and then add a 16th player. That is allowable here. Now, the question will be does, if Green goes to the suspended list, now Golden State has 13 players, technically, will they have to go out and sign a player within two weeks to get back up to 14?
we'll see how that plays out as far as, because usually everything there's a number towards the suspension. I'm guessing. Yes, that you would have to do that. let's say he's suspended. We get to that fifth game. He goes to the transfer list and all of a sudden the clock starts as far as two weeks to go out and sign a player.
I think if you're golden state, you got 13 players on the contract. Gary Payton still out. You would want to go out and you sign a player a 14th player or a 15th player, based on green going over to suspended list. You can start signing players to 10 day contracts, January 5th, players contracts become guaranteed January 7th.
So you've got a small window as far as how to go about and do that here. So that's kind of a roster minutiae. Somebody asked me on Twitter and it was a good question, like, Hey. What's, teams that pay the luxury tax, what's to say that you just suspend your own player and then you get some tax savings?
No, no. Doesn't work that way. It's only if the league issues a suspension do you get a tax variance. So, doesn't come into play, when it comes to, you know, you know, for, for team suspensions. Only for player wise here. We'll see how this Draymond situation plays out. I'm not going to come out and say, Oh, it's going to be 20 games.
It's indefinitely. There's going to be benchmarks. There's going to be a meeting of the mind between the NBA, the PA. Green, Andre Iguodala, who's in interim, and figure out a direction as far as what's going to happen. I think it's going to be more than five games. I, I would not be surprised. Do not quote me on this.”
Whew, thank God Andre just so happens to be the acting NBPA President 😅
Marks: “I'm just hypothetically that we don't see Draymond Green until after January 1st here. Now, what does it mean to Golden State? The inability to close games, and one of the documents that I have, I'm going to pull it up right now, is front office questions that each teams have to ask. This is not the trade guide.”
Anthony Slater told 95.7 The Game on Wednesday that he’s hearing most insiders believe the suspension will run past the New Year — which is kinda “uh oh” in terms of my Jan 4th litmus test.
Marks: “This is our big document. We do every year, front office discussions, who's off the board player with trade value, free agents in July, controllable contracts. And I'm going to, let's get to golden state. You don't have to wait until next week. And here are the questions I have. All right. Is Steph Curry the only player on the roster?
That is deemed untouchable. Okay. Is Chris Paul viewed as an expiring contract? Right? Paul's got a $30.8 million dollar non guaranteed contract with an end of June trigger date. How do you view Chris Paul? Do you view him as an expiring contract that you can try to flip? Because if you get past the trade deadline and you get into the off season, now you have a decision to make on Chris Paul guaranteeing his contract for next year.
Does the front office explore the trade market? For four time champion and the second longest tenured player on the roster, Klay Thompson. Extension eligible up until June 30th. Okay, I would think that's probably on the things to do. That's more of on the back burner unless things really go off the rails.”
Shams Charania reported Wednesday morning that the Warriors had offered Klay two years at $48 million at the beginning of the season, which has now been retracted, which was a brutal tweet to send out (via the RunItBack podcast platform, Shams did) the day after Thompson was benched by Steve. Anyways, that’s the gamble Klay and his agent made, so he’ll have to live with that.
Marks: “What does the trade market look like for Andrew Wiggins? He's got four years on that extension that he signed the last off season. A manageable contract in the 20s. Has not been good this year. Thompson and Wiggins benched in the Phoenix game. The young kids come in and play really well. Okay. If you do trade Wiggins, are there playable expiring contracts on the trade market that will allow you to compete both this season and in the 2024 free agent market?”
I think what Marks is saying here is that the combination of the expiring contracts — traded for Wiggins at roughly $25 million in total — PLUS Klay and/or CP3 coming off the books would make it viable for the Warriors to enter the superstar free agent market. One easy piece of math is that, as mentioned below, the Dubs are $42 million into the luxury tax this season and Klay’s contract is coincidentally $43 million.
Marks: “So basically you have Curry and Green on the, under contract, some flexibility based on what happens with Klay Thompson. Okay. Here's a question for you Golden State fans. Is this roster good enough to be pushed over the top by a one year star rental, similar to what happened with Kawhi in Toronto, if one becomes available?
Are you one player away, and which I don't think you are, to make a run at this? Out of the play in, you're in a free-fall, Green's going to be suspended. We'll see what type of resolve this team has. And then, of course, you've got these roster spots here. Those are questions that you have to ask internally, if you're Golden State, right now, up until the deadline on February 8th.”
I also tend to think they are not one player away. It’s hard for fans to remember that Kerr created a system that revolves around Steph and Klay moving without the ball. This is not easily replicable without Draymond, and Kevon Looney and Wiggs have their specific roles as well. If you go back to the traditional way of playing, then you’re running a 6’3” Curry into the ground with P&R every time down the court, faced with traps and switching among wing defenders with near 7-foot wingspans.
And if you get rid of Klay, “Warriors Basketball” which a lot of people don’t realize is predicated on great team defense anchored by Draymond and running the floor on the rebound with 3s raining from the top of the break by the SplashBrothers, would be effectively mothballed. I mean, Moody is a solid shooter, but he wasn’t shooting threes after dad’s NBA practice for hours on end at the age of seven on the way to 10,000+ hours of brain recordings of what an NBA three feels like, you know what I mean? The SplashBrothers are literally two unicorns on the same squad. Moody will someday be awesome, but he is not a unicorn.
Marks: “It used to be, what can we get Kuminga for? What can we get Moody for? Are the young kids in play? No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. Young kids are off the board right now. They're not untouchable. But they're, they're close to being untouchable because that's basically what your future is going to be. Brandin Podziemski, we have the rookie ranking article coming out, he's number 8, and you can make a good argument he should be in the top 5.”
Reminder: New article coming next about BPodz. Furthermore, I never thought Kuminga was trade-able anyways because his rookie salary is so affordable. As a buyer, you would’ve never gotten fair value. And now that he’s proven he can play with the main guys in 0.5-Basketball, let alone the game film from the 6-2 start with CP3 as well as little sprinkles of amazing P&R play with Chris, as mentioned here…
…I’m sure GMs around the NBA value JK at his ceiling rather than his present market value or, worse, the value of his relatively paltry rookie salary. So, like I said, sometimes even people employed by ESPN can’t distinguish between entertainment and information. Marks isn’t gonna do any real intel until late December, anyways. And so the people with the real knowledge are the people that cover the teams on a daily basis who have a clear grasp of how franchise culture (i.e., me), not to mention the NBA media cycle, works.
Marks: “Based on how he has played. Off the board, Curry, he's not going anywhere. Players with trade value, Thompson, Paul. Certainly Kuminga and Moody, Brandin, those, those three guys aren't going anywhere. You've got a lot of questions that you've got to ask. You owe Portland a top four protected first in ‘24, a top one protected in ‘25, unprotected in ‘26.
The earliest that you can trade is in ‘26, you have ‘26, ‘28, ‘30. You're at $42 million over the luxury tax, you got $192 million payroll, you got $400 million in salary. It is not a position where you want to be. Of course you've got those championships to rely on, and you have the inability to close games. That has been your Achilles in Golden State here.“
To temper the doomsayer stuff, I mean, this is just a reflection of life, isn’t it? It is not uncommon to find yourself in a “position where you don’t wanna be”. If you spend every waking day worried about the result and not enjoying the process or finding some gratitude in the trials and tribulations, the peaks and valleys, then you’re not learning. If you’re not learning, then you’re probably in a state of survival. A state of survival is a state of stress. Imagine living your entire life, or most of it, in a state of stress. I’ll bet some of you reading this are stuck in it. It is one of the greatest unseen tragedies of our modern society, amplified and rewarded by negative energy apps like Xitter. So we have a situation where we might have to change the identity of the franchise. So it’s Draymond that might be the straw that broke the camel’s back. So what? Evolve! Just like Moses (Moody, not the dude with the stone tablets at the top of the mountain lol) said, “A fool looks for happiness in the distance while a wise man grows it under his feet.”
Stop it with the “wasting Steph’s prime” bullshit. Don’t drink that sky-is-falling, fear-mongering Kool-Aid propped up by thumb-type-input phone apps spreading misinformation. Life is good. Change is good. Basketball is still the greatest game ever invented. If you go to Chase Center and complain about everything and refuse to yell, “Let’s go Warriors!” then YOU’RE the weirdo. I know, I know. It seems like the opposite in the 2-D app world. Live your life in 3-D, people!
Marks: “So that is the, the, the synopsis on your Golden State Warriors here, as far as what you do for this roster. And there's got to be a meeting of the mind, and you're not going to go out and add players, and spend more money. To be the 10th seed in the play in and just sneak in and hopefully you can win a play in game and get to be the 8th seed and maybe get Minnesota.”
Again to counter the doomsayer stuff: If the Lakers can get to the WCF by way of play-in, so can anyone else. I keep saying, none of this matters if the Warriors get to the playoffs because the way they figure teams out, if they’re able to break bad habits (they were unable to do so in Game 6 vs SAC), they’ve got as good a chance as anybody to not get bounced in 4 or 5 games in the WCF, which is the ultimate goal — because if you can get to Game 6 of the WCF that means you are a legit contender. Who knows, by then, maybe Draymond will have transformed into Dray 2.0. Or maybe I’ll trademark the phrase “Dray 3000”. It’s still a long season.
Marks: “I don't think that's the direction Golden State's gonna go, but a lot of questions here. It certainly starts with Green, who's suspended indefinitely. We'll see how many games it's going to be. We'll see if there's a rally around this. I can't answer that for you. That's it 15 minutes. Hopefully everyone has a great night and we will talk soon.”
ERUDITE DISCOURSE VIA YOUTUBE
On what “indefinitely” means: I’ll give credit to Silver/Dumars this one time, assuming this is true: I think they actually don’t know what’s the best amount of games to suspend Draymond yet, but they knew it would be for more than one game and had to get some kind of statement out before tomorrow’s game, if not for competitive reasons for both teams. But the (small) problem I have with it is that it categorizes the incident(s) as “as bad as Ja’s”, which I definitely do not think it is, like I don’t even think all of Draymond’s suspensions over a lifetime compare to what Ja did with 2x gun-toting. Or Kyrie’s anti-Semitism. But anyways, that small issue I have with the wording is easily overcome, assuming the penalty is not as bad as Ja’s. We’ll see.
On benching Klay: I see a lot of ppl are hell-bent on benching Klay. No one has addressed the issue that NBA coaches still fear him as a gravity component. It is said in the podium interviews of opposing coaches and literally shown on film. Easy example: Steph’s game-winner vs Portland was created with a flare screen by Klay to get Matisse Thybulle off Steph and instead against 6’2” Anfernee Simons. If Chauncey Billups thought of Klay the way the haters do, he would’ve blitzed Steph on that play and let Klay shoot the potential game-winning dagger.
So if you’re benching Klay, at least ADDRESS that FACT, maybe? Otherwise you do seem hell-bent on benching Klay as an emotional reaction to the losses — i.e., I’m sure glad you were never my coach in high school and rec league.
I love Moody, man. But the emo social media commenters saying, “Klay is trash”, FYI last five games: Klay 27.9%, Moody 30% 3PP. I think this is a reflection of the outrage by thumb-typists. I am not surprised, but when will those people realize how little loyalty they have, how they’re a bandwagon fan, how they’re addicted to throwing people under the bus? Would they actually cheer, “Bench Klay!” at Chase Center or is it that they just act like an emo needy zombie on social media? Can they actually root for Klay or is that sacrilege now? How about this, do they believe Moody thinks Klay is “washed”?
On “needing a big man”, which apparently has evolved into “getting a proper center” (doesn’t change the thesis, though): That’s more of a change of culture and philosophy of the team. If Klay recedes to the point of not being a starter or having strong minutes with Steph, then the whole point of the ecosystem — which also largely relies on Draymond, unfortunately — becomes moot and then, yeah, you might want to find that next rising big man, which btw is not necessarily that easy to find and at the proper cost in terms of fit with the salary cap issues. Point being, now is not the time yet to find your “proper center” unless TJD somehow blossoms rising up the depth chart in Dray’s absence, or the team continues to flounder at which point by Jan 4th (Denver game) you’ve got to consider reshaping the team and looking at the trade market.
On people saying Klay can’t play defense and propping up Moody: I have no doubt Moody is the heir apparent. But Klay still has a little shelf life left and it is too early right now to give up on him. We’ll probably have Moody and Klay on the floor anyways, closing if we’re behind. That was the case against Portland and OKC, iirc. If we’re up, I’d rather have healthy GP2 in there defending the wing and Klay defending as well, unless Mo’s POA defense improves — and he still can’t guard bigger players in the paint like Klay can. So yeah, I think Mo’s time is right around the corner and I’m not willing to give up on Klay just yet. If he continues to have bad games and can’t build “playing hard” into a habit by Jan 4th, whether that’s mental or physical or being older or all of the above, then yeah it’ll be time to consider some changes with the Feb trade deadline approaching.
On people being “curious” (as opposed to outraged) about how the team would play by changing up the lineup drastically: I appreciate the positivity. Only rebuttal I would say is, you can be curious AND patient at the same time. Heck, if Steve doesn’t start Klay vs the Clips, I’d almost say Steve is more impatient than I am. But maybe he knows something I don’t. As I’ve been saying, I’m giving Klay until Jan 4th. At that point you gotta give MDJ a month to cultivate the trade market — which isn’t to say I’d trade Klay because he really doesn’t have value with that $43M monster contract. Transactionally I don’t see Klay on another team. What I mean is, by Jan 4 the culture, shape and ecosystem of the Warriors could change in that month before the Feb trade deadline, and so part of that equation could see Klay take a palpable lesser role going forward. But then again Klay would have to continue playing sub-par. I just don’t see that happening and I wish more fans could sense how unlikely that is. But yeah, back to my thesis that social media causes fans to go into doomsday fear scenarios. Do you see how that works now? I’ve laid out all the facts, milestones, and probabilities yet people still really think at this point in time that Klay is done.
On people throwing Klay under the bus: People on social media tend to blame the easiest target at the moment. They would never blame Steph although every game he will pass the ball to the other team for a layup at least twice. But they wouldn’t get any likes for tweeting that on Xitter. So the more we are aware of how people devolve from human beings when they comment outrage on social media, the more people have a chance to snap out of it and say “no” to that trance.
On “reforming” the Warriors style (presumably led by the youngsters): Well, a lot of the “strategy” is playing solid defense which then leads to fast breaks and 3s in transition which usually demoralizes the opponents. The problem with that? 1) Draymond has now been ejected or suspended or DNP’ed (the one game at Denver for personal reasons) 11 times in 23 games — can’t really establish a defensive identity that way, 2) the turnovers obviously don’t help, which are largely the responsibility of Steph and Dray, and 3) the rest of the NBA is simply better nowadays (example: OKC). And so yeah, by Jan 4th which is the Denver litmus test, if it is deemed that we still suck as of that date then, yeah, it is time to consider reshaping the team with a different kind of culture and ecosystem. Unfortunately the current ecosystem relies heavily on Draymond, but with the trade deadline in February and the growing urgency of quite simply the W-L record, we might be unable to wait until Draymond comes back should his impending suspension be beyond that evaluation period.
A fun one to leave you on: Man, I just realized that — and this is just a momentary thought with no added insight — Draymond to the Lakers could be a thing within 30 days. Wow. Lol 😂 Is it even transactionally possible from LAL’s side? Or maybe the Bucks, considering Damian Lillard’s well-documented willingness to play with Dray.
HOW THE SUSPENSION WENT DOWN
• Friendly reminder that Adam Silver’s league is all about 1) dollars and 2) image; from Brett Siegel: “As the NBA continues to discuss Draymond Green and a possible suspension, league sources have told ClutchPoints that the Warriors' Christmas Day game vs. the Nuggets has been brought up. A suspension of seven games or greater would make Green unavailable for this game.”
• ESPN Sources: The NBA is suspending Golden State’s Draymond Green indefinitely. (Adrian Wojnarowski)
• Golden State Warriors forward Draymond Green has been suspended indefinitely for striking Phoenix Suns center Jusuf Nurkić in the face, it was announced today by Joe Dumars, Executive Vice President, Head of Basketball Operations. This outcome takes into account Green’s repeated history of unsportsmanlike acts. The incident occurred with 8:23 remaining in the third quarter of the Warriors’ 119-116 loss to the Suns on Dec. 12 at Footprint Center. Green received a Flagrant Foul 2 and was ejected. Green’s suspension will begin immediately. He will be required to meet certain league and team conditions before he returns to play. (NBA PR)
• Draymond Green will be allowed to continue practicing with team while serving his suspension, source tells NBAonTNT, BleacherReport. (Chris Haynes)
• Draymond Green, Warriors GM Mike Dunleavy Jr., and Green’s agent Rich Paul of Klutch Sports are expected to meet Thursday to start discussing a path of counseling and help for Green to move forward, sources said. The league didn’t want to put a specific number on the suspension, but allow Green to take the time he might need to deal with challenges he’s facing. (Adrian Wojnarowski)
• Sources: Golden State's Draymond Green is expected to receive counseling and work with the Warriors and NBA while suspended after striking Phoenix's Jusuf Nurkic in the head on Tuesday night. He has to meet criteria before a return to play. (Shams Charania)
• (see video and transcript of Bobby Marks report, above)
• Kevin Durant on Draymond Green, who received indefinite suspension from NBA for hitting Jusuf Nurkic in Tuesday win over Warriors: “I hope he gets the help he needs… That was insane to see. Glad Nurk is alright. Never seen that on the basketball court in an NBA game.” (Duane Rankin)
• Duane Rankin with exclusive quotes with Nurkic the day after GSW-PHX: https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2023/12/13/draymond-green-suspended-indefinitely-still-respected-by-jusuf-nurkic/71880649007/
“I have a lot of respect for him, obviously, even before this,” Nurkic said before Wednesday’s game against the Brooklyn Nets at Footprint Center. “I still have it. I don’t know what people go through. It’s not our problem, but he’s an NBA champion for me, Hall of Famer still.”
“I feel like they’ll do what’s best for the league and for him,” Nurkic said.
“It’s kind of sad to see people going in a bad direction,” Nurkic said. “I want him to succeed and still be the Draymond we all know. I have no bad feelings or any hate towards him.”
DRAYMOND POSTGAME GSW-PHX
STEPH POSTGAME GSW-PHX
KERR/BPODZ/MO POSTGAME GSW-PHX
GAME NOTES FROM GSW-PHX
11m50 Q1 Klay misses coverage on Beal
11m30 Q1 Klay tov
11m10 Q1 Klay fouls
10m33 Q1 Dray catch and shoot 3 from the BLOB
10m10 Q1 good switching D leads to shotclock violation
10m00 Q1 Dray rushing, bad tov AAU
9m45 Q1 more bad D, 3 to Okogie
7m55 Q1 good tipout Wiggs
7m30 Q1 another good tip by Wiggs
7m17 Q1 Steph corner 3 via touch pass Wiggs
6m55 Q1 Okogie 3 via Booker greatness/double (CP first sub, went small)
6m33 Q1 CP misses open corner 3
5m55 Q1 Wiggs doubles Nurkic in lane vs Dray, didn't need to, Metu gets the step
5m40 Q1 Dray throws ball into crowd
5m15 Q1 Book switch to Steph, leads to Okogie attack
5m00 Q1 Mo JK Saric in about a minute earlier than usual, no Klay Podziemski
4m30 Q1 JK CP3 PNR!
3m54 Q1 BP in for Steph at the usual time
2m55 Q1 Mo bad tov
1m10 Q1 JK exposes ball to Eubanks
0m35 Q1 JK slow reaction to Book
0m00.7 Q1 JK dribbles??
43:00 Klay paid for his early mistakes, CP coming in at 7min seems to be a rotation thing, not a reaction to benching Klay or anything, that would be my guess
45:00 I was told that CP3 had some bad symptoms in missing the OKC game w/ illness
11m44 Q2 JK celebrates Saric 3 early, later will get hug at timeout, see below
11m30 Q2 BP steal a la GP2 (compared by Bloomer) and-1 vs Beal on fb -- Klay started Q2
10m50 Q2 Klay misses fb 3 badly
10m22 Q2 good JK BP Saric fb
9m40 Q2 CP steal, BP nice behind the back to Saric fouled
9m33 Q2 Saric hugs JK on timeout
9m33 Q2 BP oreb on miss FT leads to CP 3
8m00 Q2 JK slips screen for Klay, picked on Klay, timeout Vogel, does he bring Book back with almost a full Q1 played?
7m40 Q2 Beal slips JK Klay
6m55 Q2 Klay misses Loon on the roll, Book checks back in, Klay out
5m55 Q2 trap Book
5m30 Q2 Wiggs misses another paint attempt
5m15 Q2 Dray doubles Nurkic
5m00 Q2 Mo 3 saves Dray Loon ugliness
4m30 Q2 Wiggs loses the ball
4m15 Q2 trap Book again, Nurkic 3, after 3s by Okogie and Metu, trap not working
3m55 Q2 JK in for Wiggs, .Steph 3
3m40 Q2 Mo fouled on rebound
3m15 Q2 Dray DPOY vs Nurkic
2m30 Q2 Klay bad 3 early shotclock
2m00 Q2 Klay redemption attack and layup
1m00 Q2 JK attacks Booker, tremendous confidence booster
0m33 Q2 Klay good D on Metu
0m20 Q2 another bad shot by Klay with 18 on the clock
0m05 Q2 Steph 3 via flare with CP
1:23:00 HOT TAKE FOR HALFTIME: start JK instead of Looney, Book might get his 4th against him
11m50 Q3 BP starts for Wiggs, Dray layup
10m15 Q3 JK says bye bye to Metu and-1!
9m55 Q3 JK late on the switch with Klay
9m22 Q3 Steph/JK tov
9m10 Q3 BP takes charge on Book
8m55 Q3 Dray low post to BP
8m30 Q3 JK doesn't run fast enough past Steph on the fb
8m30 Q3 Dray ejected, expect Book-Nurkic PNR
8m10 Q3 BP 3 left open
7m30 Q3 BP righthand attack vs Nurkic
6m45 Q3 Book tries to draw foul on JK base no go
6m30 Q3 CP tov
6m20 Q3 Steph tov
5m30 Q3 CP helps JK on Book bad decision, pass to Goodwin for 3
4m33 Q3 Mo falls asleep on curl
3m45 Q3 Wiggs bad tov
4m00 Q3 Saric leaves Eubanks to help on Book, but then leaves Eubanks
3m25 Q3 bad jumpball positional defense
2m30 Q3 CP Saric PNR back to Saric inside
2m15 Q3 CP 3
1m15 Q3 CP kickout challenged
1m10 Q3 Book out, Beal in
0m40 Q3 Saric tov
11m45 Q4 TJD in, Beal scores on a curl
11m15 Q4 TJD block on the help
10m40 Q4 TJD good close out on Nurkic
10m24 Q4 BP really mad at himself for missed 3
8m40 Q4 CP3 steal
8m10 Q4 Klay misses wide open 3
7m45 Q4 Mo 3, shooting better than Klay
7m00 Q4 Mo Klay action didn't work, Steph not good stuff
6m50 Q4 Steph bad pass, Klay steps on line
5m50 Q4 Steph corner 3 miss, nice find by BP
2:30:15 are we the worst FT shooting team?
5m10 Q4 Book tov, good help BP and JK
4m55 Q4 no foul call on the reach in on BP
4m40 Q4 Steph can't get open, JK 3
4m05 Q4 Steph bad baseline J
2:35:45 possibly the worst game ever seen with our vaunted 5
3m45 Q4 Book hacks Steph no call
3m36 Q4 JK inbound BLOB score no and-1
2m00 Q4 Steph 3 after steal over Book
1m30 Q4 BP good drive, reverse layup
1m10 Q4 JK steal dunk
0m50 Q4 BP good layup
0m20 Q4 BP another layup, PNR Steph
0m09 Q4 Steph got the 1v1 vs EG
2:57:15 still toughest schedule in the league http://powerrankingsguru.com/nba/strength-of-schedule.php
2:58:00 Doug Chang: Wiggs might be injured, wincing in pain on bench?
2:58:45 only West team with the toughest schedule
3:06:45 seems like Kerr is having a long postgame talk with the team?
3:11:15 KERR POSTGAME AUDIO
3:29:45 BP POSTGAME AUDIO
3:35:15 Klay postgame quotes from Shayna Rubin (probably locker room)
3:36:45 Jessica Ann: "Yeah Klay got mad, saw Curry try and console him as well as others, He threw a towel and was quite animated before he sat down"
3:37:30 DRAYMOND POSTGAME AUDIO
3:45:00 my theory on everything: the starting five doesn't seem to be able to get away with their typical mistakes, so dial it back and be a little bit more conservative, and just run the offense, cut hard, etc.; Cholo: " that's why I asked if they should stop playing organized chaos a few games back."
3:50:00 BRAIN PROGRAMS EVERYTHING FROM AGE 2-12, so Draymond (Saginaw), Steph (all-time shooter), Klay (all-time shooter)
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